ʻO Alain Eril lāua ʻo Sophie Cadalene: "Ua hānau ʻia ka Eroticism mai ka uhai ʻana i nā kapu"

Manaʻo ʻo Sexologist Alain Héril e hoʻomaka ana nā wahine e hōʻike liʻiliʻi i kā lākou eroticism ... akā hana lākou e like me nā lula kāne. Hoʻopuka ʻokoʻa ʻo Sophie Cadalen ʻo Psychoanalyst i ka pane: ʻo ka eroticism kahi wahi e nalowale ai nā palena ma waena o nā kāne ... A ma kahi hoʻopaʻapaʻa, e like me kou ʻike, hānau ʻia ka ʻoiaʻiʻo.

Nā manaʻo noʻonoʻo: He ʻokoʻa ka wahine erotica mai ke kāne?

Sophie Cadalen: ʻAʻole wau e hoʻokaʻawale i nā erotica wahine kūikawā, nā hiʻohiʻona o ia mau hiʻohiʻona o kēlā me kēia wahine. Akā i ka manawa like, ʻike maopopo wau: aia kekahi mau manawa hiki ke ʻike ʻia ma ke ʻano he wahine. A ʻaʻole like kēlā me ke kāne. ʻO kēia ʻokoʻa ka mea hoihoi iā mākou ma kahi mua. E noʻonoʻo mākou, ʻoiai he nui nā manaʻo hoʻowahāwahā, i mea e maopopo ai: he aha ke kāne a me ka wahine? he aha kā mākou e manaʻo ai mai kekahi i kekahi ma ke ʻano pili kino? He aha ko mākou makemake a me ke ʻano o ka leʻaleʻa? Akā, ma mua o ka pane ʻana i kēia mau nīnau, pono mākou e noʻonoʻo i ʻekolu mau kumu: ʻo ke au e noho nei mākou, ka manawa i hānai ʻia ai mākou, a me ka mōʻaukala o ka pilina ma waena o nā kāne a me nā wahine a hiki i kēia lā.

Alain Eril: E ho'āʻo kākou e wehewehe i ka erotica. E kapa anei mākou i kekahi kumu o ka hoʻohihi moe kolohe? A i ʻole he aha ka mea e haʻalulu ai iā mākou, e wela ai i loko? Hoʻopili ʻia nā manaʻo a me nā leʻaleʻa me kēia huaʻōlelo… Noʻu, ʻo erotica kahi manaʻo o ka makemake, i hōʻike ʻia ma o nā kiʻi. No laila, ma mua o ka kamaʻilio ʻana e pili ana i ka erotica wahine, pono e nīnau kekahi inā he mau kiʻi wahine kikoʻī. A eia wau e ʻae me Sophie: ʻaʻohe wahine erotica ma waho o ka mōʻaukala o nā wahine a me ko lākou wahi i loko o ke kaiāulu. ʻOiaʻiʻo, aia kekahi mea mau. Akā i kēia lā, ʻaʻole maopopo mākou i nā hiʻohiʻona i loaʻa iā mākou he kāne a he wahine, he aha kā mākou ʻokoʻa a like, he aha kā mākou makemake - hou, kāne a wahine. He mea hoihoi loa kēia mau mea a pau no ka mea e koi ana iā mākou e nīnau iā mākou iho i nā nīnau.

Eia nō naʻe, inā mākou e nānā, no ka laʻana, i nā pūnaewele ponokala, ʻike ʻia iā mākou he ʻokoʻa nui ma waena o nā moemoeā kāne a me nā wahine ...

SK: No laila, he mea nui e hoʻomanaʻo i ke au i hele mai ai kākou. Manaʻo wau mai ka wā i kū mai ai ka manaʻo o ka erotica, ua pale mau ke kūlana o ka wahine. Ke hūnā nei mākou ma hope - pinepine me ka ʻike ʻole - nā manaʻo e pili ana i ka wahine e hōʻole iā mākou i ke komo ʻana i kekahi mau kiʻi. E lawe kākou i nā kiʻi ponoʻī ma ke ʻano he laʻana. Inā mākou e haʻalele i ka nui o ka prejudices a me ka defensive reactions, ka mea, e koke e maopopo i ka nui o na kane i aloha ole ia ia, oiai lakou e koi aku i ka mea ku e, a me na wahine, ma ke ku e, aloha ia ia, aka, huna pono. I ko mākou au, ke ʻike nei nā wahine i kahi ʻano like ʻole ma waena o kā lākou moekolohe maoli a me kāna hōʻike. Aia nō he ʻokoʻa nui ma waena o ke kūʻokoʻa a lākou e ʻōlelo nei a me kā lākou manaʻo maoli a pāpā mau iā lākou iho.

ʻO ia ke ʻano o ka wahine i mau pōʻino i ka manaʻo i mālama ʻia e nā kāne a me ke kaiāulu holoʻokoʻa? E hūnā anei lākou i kā lākou mau moemoeā, makemake a ʻaʻole hoʻi e hoʻohuli iā lākou i mea maoli?

SK: Hōʻole wau i ka huaʻōlelo "pōʻino" no ka mea ke manaʻoʻiʻo nei au ua komo nā wahine ponoʻī i kēia. I koʻu hoʻomaka ʻana e aʻo i nā palapala erotic, ua ʻike au i kahi mea hoihoi: manaʻo mākou he palapala kāne kēia, a ma ka manawa like mākou e manaʻo ai - mai iā mākou iho a mai ka mea kākau paha - he hiʻohiʻona wahine. ʻAe, no ka laʻana, ʻo ka hana ʻino he ʻano kāne. A no laila ua ʻike au i ka makemake o nā wahine e kākau i ia mau puke e ʻike i ka hana ʻino i loko o ke kino kāne. I kēia, ʻaʻole ʻokoʻa nā wahine me nā kāne.

AE: ʻO ka mea a mākou e kapa nei i nā kiʻi kiʻiʻoniʻoni, ʻo ia kēia: kuhikuhi kekahi kumuhana i kona makemake i kahi kumuhana ʻē aʻe, e hoʻemi ana iā ia i ke kūlana o kahi mea. I kēia hihia, ʻo ke kāne ke kumuhana, a ʻo ka wahine ka mea. ʻO ia ke kumu e hoʻohui ai mākou i nā kiʻi ponoʻī me nā ʻano kāne. Akā inā mākou e lawe i nā ʻoiaʻiʻo i ka pōʻaiapili o ka manawa, e ʻike mākou ʻaʻole i ʻike ʻia ka moekolohe wahine a hiki i ka makahiki 1969, i ka wā i ʻike ʻia ai nā lāʻau hoʻomalu hānau, a me lākou ka ʻike hou o ka pili kino, ka moekolohe a me ka leʻaleʻa. He mea hou loa keia. ʻOiaʻiʻo, aia mau nā kiʻi wahine koʻikoʻi e like me Louise Labe.¹, Koleka² or Lou Andreas-Salome³i kū i ko lākou moekolohe, akā no ka hapa nui o nā wahine, ua hoʻomaka nā mea a pau. He mea paʻakikī iā mākou ke wehewehe i ka erotica wahine no ka mea ʻaʻole maopopo mākou i ke ʻano o ia mea. Ke ho'āʻo nei mākou e wehewehe, akā i ka wā mua ke hele nei mākou ma ke alanui i paʻa ʻia e nā lula o ka eroticism kāne: kope ʻana iā lākou, hana hou iā lākou, e hoʻomaka ana mai lākou. ʻO ka mea ʻē aʻe, ʻo ka pili wahine wale nō.

SK: ʻAʻole hiki iaʻu ke ʻae aku iā ʻoe e pili ana i nā lula kāne. ʻOiaʻiʻo, ʻo kēia ka moʻolelo o ka pilina ma waena o ke kumuhana a me ka mea. ʻO kēia ka mea e pili ana i ka moekolohe, nā moemoeā moe kolohe: ʻo mākou a pau ke kumuhana a me ke ʻano. Akā,ʻaʻole kēia manaʻo ua kūkuluʻia nā mea a pau e like me nā kānāwai kāne.

Ponoʻole e'ōlelo, heʻokoʻa mākou: ua hoʻolālāʻia ke kino wahine e loaʻa,ʻo ke kāne - e komo. He kuleana anei kēia i ke ʻano o ka erotica?

SK: Hiki iāʻoe ke hoʻololi i nā mea a pau. E hoʻomanaʻo i ke kiʻi o kahi puʻu niho: pale ʻole ke kāne, aia kāna peni i ka mana o ka wahine, hiki iā ia ke nahu iā ia. ʻO kahi lālā erect me he mea lā e hoʻouka ana, akā ʻo ia hoʻi ka nāwaliwali nui o ke kanaka. ʻAʻole loa nā wāhine a pau e moeʻuhane i ka houʻia: ma ka erotica ua hui pūʻia nā mea a pau.

AE: ʻO ke ʻano o ka eroticism ʻo ia ke hoʻololi i ko mākou noʻonoʻo a me ka hoʻomohala ʻana i ka hana moe kolohe e like me ka manawa o ka moekolohe. ʻO kēia wahi, he kāne mai ka wā kahiko, ua haku ʻia e nā wahine: i kekahi manawa hana lākou e like me nā kāne, i kekahi manawa kūʻē i nā kāne. Pono mākou e hāʻawi i ko mākou makemake i ka ʻokoʻa i mea e ʻae ai i ka haʻalulu i hiki ke lawe mai iā mākou i kahi mea ʻaʻole i ke kāne a i ʻole ka wahine. ʻO kēia ka hoʻomaka o ke kūʻokoʻa maoli.

SK: Ua ʻae wau iā ʻoe e pili ana i ka noʻonoʻo a me ka noʻonoʻo. ʻAʻole ʻo Erotica wale nō kahi pāʻani e alakaʻi ana i ke komo. ʻAʻole ka hopena o ke komo ʻana iā ia iho. ʻO Erotica nā mea āpau a mākou e pāʻani ai a hiki i ka piko, me ke komo ʻole a i ʻole.

AE: I koʻu aʻo ʻana i ka sexology, ua haʻi ʻia mākou e pili ana i nā pōʻai o ka moekolohe: makemake, foreplay, penetration, orgasm… a me kahi paka (ʻakaʻaka). ʻO ka ʻokoʻa ma waena o ke kāne a me ka wahine i ʻōlelo ʻia ma hope o kahi orgasm: hiki i ka wahine ke hiki i ka mea e hiki mai ana. ʻO kēia kahi kahi i hūnā ʻia ai ka eroticism: i kēia hana aia kahi mea o ke kauoha e hoʻomau. He mea paʻakikī kēia no mākou nā kāne: e komo i kahi wahi moe kahi e komo ʻole ai ka ejaculation a me ka hoʻopau ʻana. Ma ke ala, lohe pinepine au i kēia nīnau i koʻu hoʻokipa ʻana: hiki anei ke kapa ʻia ka pilina me ke komo ʻole ʻana he pilina maoli?

SK: He nui na wahine e ninau mai i keia ninau. ʻAe wau me ʻoe i ka wehewehe ʻana o ka erotica: e kū mai ana mai loko mai, mai ka noʻonoʻo ʻana, ʻoiai ʻo ka ponokala kiʻi e hana mechanically, me ka waiho ʻole o kahi lumi no ka ʻike ʻole.

AE: ʻO ka ponokala ka mea e alakaʻi iā mākou i ka ʻiʻo, i ka friction o nā mucous membrane e kūʻē kekahi i kekahi. ʻAʻole mākou e noho i kahi hyper-erotic, akā i kahi hui hyper-pornographic. Ke ʻimi nei ka poʻe i kahi ala e hiki ai i ka moekolohe ke hana mechanically. ʻAʻole kōkua kēia i ka erotica, akā i ka hauʻoli. A ʻaʻole ʻoiaʻiʻo kēia, no ka mea, ke hōʻoiaʻiʻo nei mākou iā mākou iho ua hauʻoli mākou i ka wahi moe. Akā ʻaʻole kēia he hedonism, akā he kuni, ʻeha i kekahi manawa, ʻeha pinepine.

SK: ʻO ka hauʻoli e hakakā me ka hoʻokō. Pono mākou e "hiki i ..." Aia i mua o ko mākou mau maka, ma kekahi ʻaoʻao, ka nui o nā kiʻi, nā manaʻo, nā ʻōlelo kuhikuhi, a ma kekahi, conservatism nui loa. Me he mea lā ua paheʻe ka erotica ma waena o kēia mau mea ʻelua.

AE: E loaʻa mau ʻo Erotica i kahi ala e hōʻike ai iā ia iho, no ka mea, ʻo ke kumu o kā mākou libido. I ka wā i pāpā ʻia ai nā mea pena kiʻi i ka wā ʻInekuisiti e pena i nā kino ʻōlohelohe, hōʻike lākou iā Kristo i kaulia ma ke keʻa ma ke ʻano erotic.

SK: Akā, aia ka censorship ma nā wahi a pau no ka mea ke lawe nei mākou i loko o mākou. Loaʻa mau ʻia ʻo Erotica ma kahi i pāpā ʻia a i manaʻo ʻia he mea ʻino. Me he mea lā ua ʻae ʻia nā mea a pau i kēia lā? E loaʻa i kā mākou eroticism ke ala i kēlā me kēia ʻāpana a puka i ka manawa i manaʻo ʻole ʻia. Ma kahi kūpono ʻole, i ka manawa hewa, me ke kanaka hewa… Ua hānau ʻia ka Eroticism mai ka uhai ʻana i kā mākou inhibitions unconscious.

AE: Hoʻopili mau mākou i kahi wahi e pili kokoke ana i ka erotica ke kamaʻilio mākou e pili ana i nā kikoʻī. Eia kekahi laʻana, haʻi wau i kahi peʻa ma ka ʻaoʻao, a maopopo i nā mea a pau ke kamaʻilio nei mākou no kahi moku. Kōkua kēia mana i kā mākou ʻike, e hoʻomaka me kahi kikoʻī, e hoʻopau i kahi mea holoʻokoʻa. Malia paha ʻo kēia ka ʻokoʻa nui ma waena o ka erotica a me nā kiʻi kiʻi: ʻo nā ʻōlelo hōʻike mua wale nō, hāʻawi ʻia ka lua me ka palaka, ma ke ʻano koʻikoʻi. ʻAʻohe hoihoi i ka ponokala.

¹ Ua alakaʻi ʻo Louise Labé, 1522–1566, ka haku mele Farani, i ke ʻano o ke ola ākea, nā mea kākau, nā mea mele a me nā mea pena kiʻi i loko o kona hale.

² ʻO Colette (Sidonie-Gabrielle Colette), 1873–1954, he mea kākau Palani, ʻike pū ʻia no kona kūʻokoʻa o ka pono a me nā mea aloha he nui me nā wahine a me nā kāne. Naita o ka Papa o ka Legion of Honor.

³ ʻO Lou Andreas-Salome, Louise Gustavovna Salome (Lou Andreas-Salomé), 1861‒1937, kaikamahine a General o ka Russian Service Gustav von Salome, ka mea kākau a me ke akeakamai, hoa a me ka mea hoʻoikaika o Friedrich Nietzsche, Sigmund Freud a me Rainer-Maria Rilke.